© Jon SooHoo/Los Angeles Dodgers 2012
Of all the inane criticisms of Dodger fans I’ve heard, this might be the most inane in the membrane.
Apparently, Dodger fans have committed a Code 2 violation of the Fan Behavior Contract by chanting “M-V-P!” for Matt Kemp.
In multiple spots of the Internet (not including Hank Schulman of the Chronicle, whose different criticisms I’d need to address elsewhere), I’ve seen people deride the “M-V-P!” cheer for a player who justifiably deserved the award last season and has only improved his performance this season – in other words, the player who is currently the most valuable one in the league.
See, it’s only May, and the National League MVP award isn’t given out until … wait, let me ask someone who follows the sport of baseball … oh, they say it’s after the season ends! Whoa – who knew?
I guess just too dum 2 realize calender.
Good lord. Yes, there is a group of stupid people in this discussion – and it’s the group that thinks it’s wrong to express enthusiasm for a player of Matt Kemp’s caliber outside of … I don’t know, the official nomination period for MVP balloting that doesn’t actually exist. Dodger fans believe he’s the best player in baseball, an opinion that happens to be shared by many nationwide. But since “He’s the best player in baseball! He’s the best player in baseball!” doesn’t make for a great chant, they’ve shortened it to “M-V-P!” It’s not rocket science. It’s also completely valid.
And it’s – heaven forbid – fun. Remember that? Fun? Some people enjoy it. You know, I might even just chant “M-V-P!” for A.J. Ellis. In March. If I see him at a basketball game. For fun. You’re really going to have a problem with that?
Get. Over. Yourselves.
Anonymous
Hank Schulman was in a rather testy mood last night. He mocked the size of the crowd as well as not believing anyone who said people were booing a Giants hit and not a Kemp error. He seemed to be wanting to have a Twitter fight with Dodgers fans.
Anonymous
Tonight you will not hear CYA if only to not get a complaint that the fans are saying CIA.
Anonymous
Jon, Agree. Why don’t they focus their energy elsewhere. They must be bored. They criticize us for being laid back and leaving early, then when we show some enthusiasm they want to knock us back down.
Anonymous
Really? Complaining about fans supporting their hometown player? That’s just douchetastic.
Anonymous
The crux of Schulman’s argument is that Dodger fans were chanting “MVP” a half-inning after supposedly booing him for making a misplay in the outfield. So, the fans were just being fickle.
And the Dodgers didn’t get 56,000 fans on a Monday night game in May. Just 43,000.
Anonymous
Which, however, exceeds the capacity of The Phone Booth to be Named Later.
Anonymous
No it doesn’t…when biggest crowd ever recorded was 44,046 for the NLDS 2010 Game 2 with the Braves. And what’s your point? Our ballpark is smaller, so what?
Anonymous
“and it’s the group that things it’s wrong to express enthusiasm for a player of Matt Kemp’s caliber outside of”
You’ve gone Ricky Ricardo on us!
Anonymous
I’ll do the thinning around here, Baba Looey!
John
I like the MVP chant. I say you can chant that whenever you damn-well please. But I don’t really like when the PA/sound effects guy plays the “”boom-boom-boom, boom-boom-boom” sound affect along with it. It seems forced and inorganic that way.
Joe
Yeah. I agree definitely.
Anonymous
I guess in the NL only Brewer fans are allowed to yell MVP at this point. I wonder how much that happens.
Anonymous
You’re not hearing their entire cheer. The Brewers fans are cheering MVPEDU. :)
Anonymous
Let’s remember…according to Schulman WE are the worst fans in baseball, but his Giants fans chant Beat LA when they play the D-backs and after winning a World Series all they can say is how happy they are they beat the Dodgers! The Dodgers did not even make the postseason that year! That fanbase is obsessed with bringing us down and if they were not such an intelligent group of fans (unlike Phillies fans) then I would have zero respect for them. Play Ball.
Anonymous
While Gnatfans may lack intelligence and insight, they make every effort to compensate for their shortcomings with an unmatched fanaticism.
Anonymous
I said they WERE intellegent…..Gnatfans could also be construed as Nat fans btw.
Anonymous
With all due respect, you overrate the intelligence of Gnat fans. And there’s no mistaking them for Nat fans, who are courteous even if, as heirs of the Expos, they are long-suffering.
Anonymous
Afterall, we are dealing with the only fanbase that actually supported Barry Bonds during his “larger” years. I don’t expect much from Schulman and his followers.
Anonymous
Ah yes and the dodgers fans were the ones rooting for Eric Gagne were they not? The same fanbase that mocked Bryan Stow’s attack as well?
Rob McMillin
I couldn’t believe this when I first read about it. MADE for the #lolwut hashtag.
Jon Weisman
Is the story of the Chicago Bulls that they are unable to win a playoff series without their best player, or do people think they should be winning the series against the 76ers even without Rose?
Anonymous
The Bulls did win their fair share games this year without Rose and Philly is an 8th seed. It is probably the combo of Rose and (wait for it) Noah that was too much to deal with in this series.
Anonymous
This has got to stop! Next thing you know, we won’t be allowed to yell YMCA at the ballpark.
Anonymous
The MVP chant is a relatively new thing right? Didn’t it start with Beltre 2004? I don’t think there was a chant for Piazza. Then it morphed into J.D.Drew and for a very brief time into Hee Chop Soi …very brief time…excuse my spelling.
Anonymous
I miss Hee Siop Choi. Looking for information on him many years ago is what led me to this web site although it was at the Toaster then. I wish Loney would do better but if I had to choose right now, I’d take Choi.
Anonymous
oh my gosh, I thought we finally buried that guy. Really, HSC was not good. He was given chances and proved he didn’t belong in the big leagues. Loney is, was, and will always be a better player than HSC. While Loney has frustrated me plenty, he plays exceptional defense and his hitting is acceptable right now.
Jon Weisman
Eric Stults pitched six innings of two-run ball for the White Sox yesterday.
Jon Weisman
Vicente Padilla got an eight-out save for the Red Sox.
Anonymous
Doesn’t Valentine know that modern baseball only allows three out saves?
Jon Weisman
Brad Penny released by Japanese team after one start
http://bit.ly/JdD6um
Anonymous
Hoping not to violate rule 6 , if the presidential campaign is already under way, why can’t the MVP campaign already begin? After all the next MVP is “selected” before the next commander in chief.
Jon Weisman
Since you brought up voting:
http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/24072/is-it-tacky-to-chant-m-v-p-in-may
Champ Kind
Jon I love your passion on this subject. This is the fun part of being a fan. I don’t mean being rude, or obnoxious, or uninformed. I mean having a strong position, passionately defending it, and debating with others who share opposing views, typically because they root for the “other” team.
Champ Kind
Further more, its interesting to see the responses on Hank’s twitter feed from the Giant sycophants. Calling Dodger fans the worst, the dumbest ever, this or that. Its impressive the level of vitriol and bitterness that still exists, even after 2010. Its like a little brother who never forgave his older brother for being born first, and being perceived as “the greater” of the two.
Anonymous
Jon Weisman… great post.
…
I suppose we’ve all gotten so used to Laker fans chanting “M-V-P” for Kobe, that it’s nothing new to the soundtrack of pro sports in LA.
…
Anyways…I have difficulty seeing why anybody could even criticize it. It’s not negative. It’s not mean-spirited. It’s merely giving positive cheer to an outstanding local player… IMHO.
Anonymous
Maybe they should have shouted BEAT THE GNATS!
Anonymous
Of course, the Gnats went and beat themselves.
Anonymous
They’re not chanting M-V-P. That would be a violation of baseball’s code of ethics. They’re chanting KeM-V-P. That’s ok.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=up4LTKxe0PA
Anonymous
I am also really psyched with the way AJ is playing. In fact, both Ellises have been huge this year. I would still stick with Gordon at the top of the lineup though, just because everytime he gets on base he is at third with less than 2 outs. Gwynn is a great fourth outfielder, but Loney is just not a starting first baseman, even with his stellar defense. There’s just no way around it. He’s mediocre at best against righties and can’t hit lefties. Rivera and Abreu are not my favorites, but we might see a lot of them in the lineup with Loney taking a seat. Maybe Hairston should play 1st, or AJ play first on his day off from catching.
Anonymous
Rivera was 0 for 5 worse than Loney’s 0 for 2 last night.
Anonymous
“everytime he gets on base he is at third with less than 2 outs.”
What about those times he comes to the plate with two outs already? Or gets caught stealing? Or doesn’t steal second after Ellis flies out, because it gives opposing teams he opportunity to walk Kemp?
Gordon is an exciting player to watch, but let’s get real about him. He has 19 singles, five doubles, and 7 walks. He has stolen 12 bases and been caught five times. So even if he came up with nobody out and Ellis advanced him to third every time he got on, that would still be less than half the time he gets on base, which isn’t a very big number to begin with (.271 OBP).
I’m not giving up on him, but I want to see him with open eyes. Right now, he’s not getting on base enough, and getting thrown out too often.
Jason Ungar
yes, he will lead baseball in outs made, if they let him.
Anonymous
But you need to look at the whole picture. We have no other decent shortstop and batting him eigth is a waste, because the pitchers can’t handle the bat and wait for him to steal when he does get on base. Neither Ellis is a leadoff hitter even though I think they’re both more than solid so far, because AJ just doesn’t run fast enough to get first to third and Ellis is too good with the bat to put leadoff. Gwynn is decent, but not much better at getting on than Gordon and is in a position where we have more options. Other than 8th, which would be a big mistake in my mind, where would you bat Dee, or who would you replace him with?
Anonymous
Why do pitchers need to wait for him to steal? Why can’t they bunt him to second, and then let him steal third?
You’re right that the team doesn’t really have a true leadoff hitter, however.
Anonymous
FWIW – Tony would bat him 9th.
Anonymous
>> Why can’t they bunt him to second, and then let him steal third?
.
Because third is a lot harder to steal than second.
Anonymous
Not really. It’s a shorter throw for the catcher, yes, but he has to throw around the batter in the right-handed batter’s box. Plus you can get a much bigger lead from second because nobody’s holding you on and the pitcher has his back to you. If anything third is easier to steal than second.
Anonymous
Well, the shorter throw makes a HUGE difference. So we’ll just have to agree to disagree on that.
.
Also, there’s less payoff to stealing third base, because a runner on second will score just as easily on most singles as a runner on third will.
Anonymous
He needs to bunt at least twice a game – even with two outs. We saw last night what happens when an infielder is forced to hurry their pick-up and throw. Also, a game or two ago, with bases loaded and two outs, the first baseman was playing him 15 feet behind frist base. Why wouldn’t he bunt up the first base line in that situation – he could walk to first base and the run would score. Doesn’t make any sense to me when someone has the speed and skills Dee has and he insists or grounding out to the infield or popping out to short left field.
KT
He definitely needs more time working on his bunting skill…He’s definitely no Maury Wills
Dennis Allen
The “MVP” chant is a combination of Kemp getting hosed last season as well as his tremendous play thus far this season. But, with his tender hamstring, he needs to rest now. There is a long season ahead.
Adam Luther
I did not vote for Kemp for Home Run Derby – even with mid-July two months out. He’ll be a starter and that’s good enough for me. If his hammy is tender, and I’m no physician, that needs to be handled “gingerly”.
June is going to be significant for this ball club with only NINE home games.
Jon Weisman
Rockies turn to prospects Alex White, Christian Friedrich amid rotation struggles
http://bit.ly/Joj3wB
Lex Steppling
Thanks for this Jon. Schulman with the proving the stereotype about SF’s irrational complex towards LA is what gets me more than the rest given that he’s being appropriately called out here.
Anonymous
It’s not a San Francisco issue per se. It’s an issue with a small but fanatically envious and extremely vocal group of Gnats fans. I know them. I live among them.
Anonymous
I live amongst them, and I am 250 miles south of the Coke Bottle. I know similar Padre fans, to a somewhat lesser, degree beating the Dodgers salvages their 70 win season
Champ Kind
My wife’s family lives in AG, why has the central coast (and the 5 cities area) lost the battle of LA fandom? So many of the folks up there are actual transplants of Los Angeles, or Southern California in general, but somehow to root for the Dodgers means to support LA, which is anathema to everything the peaceful folks of the Central Coast stand for. Is it just the traffic and the smog?
Anonymous
I grew up in Santa Maria. I had cousins in SLO and Paso who were Gnat fans. SM was as far north as Dodgers support went. SLO and Paso have always been Gnat towns. Dodgers were never on radio stations past SM so 5 cities always had Gnats on the radio (no TV games at the time).
Anonymous
How old are you 81? We may have some mutual friends
Anonymous
So booing your best player and ‘MVP’ after he commits a small error isn’t dumb?
foul tip
Good to see Stults did well even if he doesn’t wear blue any longer.
DJ Houlton, pretty much the right-handed Dodger mirror image of Stults, has pitched in Japan for a couple seasons and seems to have done at least well enough to hang on. In December he signed with the Yomiuri Giants.
Anyone know how he’s doing?
Anonymous
One of his appearance was always sure to provoke a spelling lesson on DT from btimmer. I, myself, was always high on Stilts.
Jon Weisman
The funniest part about Schulman’s tweets was the crack about mineral water. Because people in San Francisco are tap-water drinkers tried and true, right?
Champ Kind
It’s like a crotchety old man trying to tell you how “hard it was in my day!” Dana Carvey did a great bit on that. As though it is a badge of honor to say you suffered through discomfort and a lack of quality, and you STILL enjoyed it.
Anonymous
And we liked it, we loved it…….
Anonymous
Makes me want to go to Yosemite and have a sip of some that good Hetch Hetchy water.
Frank Jones
I’ve just lost a lot of respect for Hank Schulman, so much so that I’m now wondering if most of what I ever had for the man was misplaced.
And the vitriol of Giants fans goes hand-in-hand with the standard viewpoint of San Francisco people (many of whom don’t actually live in SF and can’t afford to live there) toward anything Los Angeles — that it’s some kind of infested swampland. Little Brother Syndrome has turned into a downright clinical phobia. They are literally crawling with invisible LA bugs at all times now.
Their fans are gross and smell like Axe body spray, btw. Bored girls texting each other back and forth on Twitter, fratbros with backward caps high-fiving each other and chanting “Beat LA” in the first inning: these are your AT&T Faithful.
Champ Kind
A perfect, spot on response. The mythical LA stereotypical fans that the Gnat fans rail against, really don’t exist, or at least not in the numbers they think. I’ve tried many a time to have an SF fan explain to me what it is they hate so much about LA, and time and time again their entire argument is based on fallacies and misconceptions.
It’s things like:
“LA thinks they can spend their way to a championship! SF teams have heart!” huh?
“LA fans don’t know anything about baseball, they show up in the 3rd after pitching a screenplay, and leave in the 7th so they can get home to watch Entourage and sip their Chai Soy Lattes? SF Fans are knowledgeable and passionate!” – What?
“LA fans spend more time bouncing beachballs across empty seats then they do watching the game! We sell out all the time and stay with our team through thick and thin!” Suuuuuure you do.
So many things to correct there, but what’s the point. I almost think its best when Dodger fans just ignore this as the mindless noise that it is and focus on our team. But it is fun to publicly humiliate them once in awhile for their buffoonery.
Frank Jones
Ha. I live in Oakland, where people going to a ballgame is a whole different sort of experience, but when the Dodgers are in town I will occasionally skulk over to AT&T and watch through the fence (this is admiitedly one of the most charming things about their cookie cutter “old style” ballpark). Fans arrive late and leave early, same here as down there. If the Giants are losing badly, the floodgates open in the 7th and by the ninth inning its full on mass panic to get outside the turnstiles before the final out is recorded.
“Knowledgeable and passionate” my arse. Not that the Gnats don’t have real fans: just like any other fanbase (except, well, Padres and D-backs fans) they have some great ones and they have some terrible ones and the vast majority are just normal people who like baseball. But the real fans in SF don’t frequently attend games, in my experience. They don’t like to admit it here, but they’ve been priced out, and in more ways than simple gate admission: your “local” fan is more likely to come from San Jose or Walnut Creek these days than from San Francisco itself. Only day traders and social media programmers still live in San Francisco, with the exception of the local coffee talent from Barrista Village (catty-corner to Indifferent Restaurant Server Square). The world they think they represent simply ceased existing a long time ago. AT&T Park itself is more of a monument to a baseball park than an actual baseball park. Don’t get me wrong, it’s a very pretty tomb…
Dave Sikula
I would dispute that it’s “very pretty.” I find it cramped beyond belief and, other than the seats between the bases, lousy with crap sightlines. And getting out after a game is like being in the Tokyo subway at rush hour without the pleasantness.
Anonymous
As opposed to dodgers fans, the shining jewel of knowledgable and passionate fans huh? Thpppt! You are right somewhat about the fans though, most of the diehard fans like myself don’t come from SF but from San Jose and further. It takes nearly a 2 hour drive to SF from where I live..
Anonymous
You may be right that the normal fans hate the dodgers because of LA, but the fans seemed even worse back the Stick, and they were certainly diehards…my point is, the REAL Giants fans, “knowledgable and passionate”, hate the dodgers due to historical relevance. We’re rivals, always have been, always will be. We respect and love the rivalry but we hate the dodgers, it’s pretty simple. Yes part of it has to do with LA, but not all.
Anonymous
And you smell Giants fans? That’s pretty gross….though I’d rather have smell like Axe than BO….I’ve been to many a game at the Phone Booth, and I haven’t smelled anyone haha…but let’s not get started about the Big Blue Toilet Bowl residents’ behavior, please…THOSE are your dodger Stadium faithful…
Frank Jones
They’re too busy up here paying ten bucks for 12 ounces of Budweiser.
Anonymous
Prices dropped?
I remember my first game there. Went with a friend of mine who’s a Giants fan. My comment was, “$8 for a cup of beer and you still can’t afford anyone to hit behind Bonds?”
Anonymous
You tell em, Jon!! You the man!!
Jon Weisman
Walt Disney’s Taxi Driver bit.ly/J0AXEI
Anonymous
Judging by Schulman’s Twitter feed now, he is off on a tirade at Deadspin,
Christopher Jones
Wow — Kemp is already a very large man, and Magic dwarfs him in that photo. Sometimes I forget Magic is 6’9” :-)
Terry Austin
As he ages, Magic’s facial expressions seem to be taking on a Cosby-esque look. It looks like he’s grounding Theo in that photo above.
Derek TC
How many times has Dee Gordon gotten on base due to an error caused by his speed? It doesn’t get counted in OBP, but it technically is him getting on base due to his talent. I tried to find this stat somewhere but couldn’t.
Anonymous
Gordon has reached on an error three times. One was a dropped fly ball in center field. Two throwing errors by infielders were the others. The current leader in MLB in reaching on an error is Marlon Byrd with 6. Nelson Cruz and Angel Pagan have done it 5 times.
Sometimes fast players don’t reach on errors as often as slow players because the feeling is that they would have been safe anyway. http://www.retrosheet.org/Research/RuaneT/error_art.htm
Anonymous
Just heard that Brad Penny was released by the Japanese club he had been with ….
….
Bummer for Brad…
….
Meanwhile…back at the Penny household…
“Knock, Knock, Knock!”
“Who’s there?”
“I have a Condolence Gift Basket for Mr. Penny from an L. Bowa!”…. :-)
Jon Weisman
There’ve been 10 eight-out saves in past 10 years. Two have come this week: Padilla and C. Martinez. http://bit.ly/JcfdFj
Jon Weisman
Casey Blake is retiring.
dmreg.co/K0cpKu
Anonymous
Kind of sad. Yet, I can’t help but think he’d be a better bat off the bench than Kennedy.
Anonymous
Casey Blake will always elicit fond memories from Dodgers fans for mocking TMAEITW.
Anonymous
The same folks ciritical of “MVP” are probably the same ones with the incessant chant “Beat LA”. MVP sounds much better.
Anonymous
Too bad we can’t have audio included with our postings on Dodger Thoughts…
…
Weisman could have an audio track of “M-V-B….M-V-B….M-V-B!!!!” each time he posts!
(Most Valuable Blogger)
…
Although sometimes, I’d like to chant, “N-P-U-T…..N-P-U-T….!!!!” when my wife is nagging me.. :-)
(I do love her so….)
Anonymous
PS – I’m usually not vindictive like this…but, can’t we just “blow up this Schulman’s Twitter” during the game tonight?
…
Possibly report him for offensive material? Get his account suspended?
…
Sounds Jeuvenile. Sorry. :-/
Jamaal Abdul-Rahim
I was at the Stadium last night. The fans were NOT booing Matt Kemp. In my section (Top Deck), the fans booed anything positive done by the Giants, whom they hate. Dodger fans love Matt Kemp. There were cheers all over the the Stadium when he appeared on the field to warm up.
As for the “MVP” chants, well, they’re right. He is the best player in baseball.
Jon Weisman
N-P-U-T!