To paraphrase Sally Field, you might not like Shane Victorino. You might really, really not like him. Perhaps because of the 2008 playoffs. (If you can’t get the clip above to work, click here.) Perhaps for another reason.
But other than providing Victorino no honeymoon if the Dodgers complete a trade for him, none of that is going to matter. If and when he does well for the Dodgers, you’re going to be happy. If and when he doesn’t, you weren’t going to be happy anyway.
As I commented yesterday at Dodger Thoughts, if Sal Maglie, Juan Marichal and Jeff Kent can become Dodgers, it’s hard to say a more insignificant rival like Victorino can’t.
Victorino, who was drafted by the Dodgers in 1999 before leaving the organization twice in rule 5 drafts – the second time to the Phillies in 2004 – is having his poorest season in five years, with a .324 on-base percentage and .401 slugging percentage for Philadelphia. The situation is parallel to the Dodgers’ acquisition of Hanley Ramirez – even if Victorino continues at that sub-par level, his total package still is a step up from what the Dodgers have been getting out of their current left fielders, unless you’re a big fan of the outfield defense of Jerry Hairston Jr., Elian Herrera and Bobby Abreu.
With his speed (24 steals in 28 attempts) and defense, consider Victorino as Tony Gwynn Jr. with a better bat. The upside for a player like Victorino, who OPSed .847 in 2011 and was at times considered a Most Valuable Player candidate, is gravy.
The problem is that Victorino, despite being a switch-hitter, has a huge platoon disadvantage against right-handed pitching, as Jack Moore notes at Fangraphs. His OPS vs. righties this year is .649, and he has never broken .800 while batting left-handed. Again, the Dodgers have seen worse, but given how much more often there’s a right-handed pitcher on the mound, Victorino likely gives the Dodgers a new offensive weapon in fewer than half their remaining games. He’s more a replacement for Juan Rivera (and Gwynn) than for James Loney.
Victorino is earning $9.5 million this season and can become a free agent this fall.
The reported cost will be Dodger reliever Josh Lindblom and a prospect. Lindblom, though slumping lately, has been one of the Dodgers’ top relievers this year, and he’s someone I like coming out of the bullpen, though that’s an area that’s easier to solve than the outfield. In general, the Dodgers are moving to solve their tremendous organizational imbalance of pitching vs. position players, and so this move would have that going for it.
How much of a difference Victorino might make as a Dodger, I don’t know. I can certainly think of players I’d rather have. But like him or not, if the Dodgers get him, it’ll be time to root for him.
Update: Tim Brown of Yahoo! Sports reports that the deal is done, with Victorino coming to Los Angeles in exchange for Lindblom and Ethan Martin, the 2008 first-round draft pick who misses bats but has long had control issues. Martin has allowed 89 hits and 61 walks in 118 innings for Double-A Chattanooga this year, but with 112 strikeouts.
Update 2: Dave Cameron of Fangraphs likes the trade a bit for the Dodgers.
Update 3: The Giants have countered. Hunter Pence, who has a .784 OPS for the Phillies this year, is headed to San Francisco.
Update 4: The trade is official, with the Dodgers also sending Philadelphia a player to be named later or cash. (Or Ralston Cash.)
Update 5: More on the trade from Jonah Keri of Grantland, Cliff Corcoran of SI.com and Carson Cistulli of Fangraphs.
Update 6: The Dodgers have designated LHP Michael Antonini for assignment to clear a spot on the 40-man roster.
Update 7: The Baseball Prospectus take on the trade.
underdog
Guess I have to learn to like Victorino. Anything is possible!
Hey, it wasn’t his fault if Dodgers gave him up once before. It’s more his fault for being kind of a dork but… I think he can help this team.
I’d actually lost some faith in Lindblom, his fastball just seems more hittable now and he’s been prone to the longball all season. He still has upside, is young, and I wish him the best. But given the number of arms in the system and the addition of League he’s more expendable. Just hope the other guy isn’t someone we’ll regret more… {gulp}
Anonymous
100% agreement with your sentiments. Biggest negative for me is he’s a 2 month rental or he’ll cost a lot next year. I would have preferred Soriano, with all his warts, or better yet, Shoo.
underdog
Shoo would be AWESOME but he’d also cost a ton in trade. Soriano would be fine as a cheap rental but Dodgers would be stuck with him beyond this year and who knows how much of his ludicrous contract they’d have to eat. (Soriano’s also not good in the outfield and tends to wilt against good pitching.) Again, I would’ve loved Choo, too (woo!) but just wasn’t a realistic option. Dodgers may not even have the pieces Indians would want anyway.
Jibin Park
SHIN SHOO CHOO… HEE SEOP CHOI…. SHIN SOO CHOO….would make for a nice chant at Dodger Stadium
Anonymous
“you made me cry, when you said hello, ain’t that a shane” (with apologies to Fats). At least Linkmeister would get to see Dodger highlights to his heart’s content.
Anonymous
Hendley, were you involved in vineyard irrigation in Maule? One of my favorite areas of Chile, spectacular back country that gets very few hikers.
Anonymous
Just wrote something in the OT.
KT
^_^
Anonymous
I’m fine with Victorino – good defense, and I expect him to produce more than any of the rest of the LF troika. Could also make Hairston an IF, increasing the odds of DFAing him whose name I will not mention.
Anonymous
“If and when he does well for the Dodgers, you’re going to be happy.”
I’m sure I’m in the minority here, but there are certain players I just won’t root for, no matter what team they play for. Manny Ramirez was first and foremost on that list. I disliked him for shoving the Red Sox traveling secretary and for quitting on his Boston teammates, and was therefore unsurprised to find out he was cheating.
Milton Bradley was another unlikeable player. I think my support for Ethier stems as much from getting rid of Bradley as it does for what Andre does on the field.
I don’t necessarily think Victorino is a bad guy, but I don’t much like his antics. I’ll tolerate him as a Dodger, but I don’t have to root for him any more than I have to root for Juan Uribe or Bret Tomko.
Anonymous
I completely agree (except that I always liked Manny, and I even root for Uribe out of pity). J.D. Drew would be an example for me. I fear this while take the whole-heartendess out of my fandom for the rest of this season, and replace it with 8/9-heartedness.
Nick
SaMoDodger, I will buy you a beer (or ten) if I ever meet you for this post- I could not agree with you more.
Anonymous
I might have to meet you someplace. Next trip to Dodger Stadium is Aug. 20 v. Giants.
Nick
Well friend, I wish I was a west-coaster, but I’m not. I live in Pa., and my wife is from right outside of Villanova, so I hear plenty about the Fillies, which is why I truly and sincerely hate them so much. However, if I have to make a trip to the left side or you are ever going to come East, I’ll follow through on my offer!
Anonymous
I get east once a year or so, to visit family in NY, and in a tiny town called Dingmans Ferry, Pa. Not much to Philadelphia though. Cheers,
John
Nick
Curious to where you go in NY- I live directly south of Elmira/Binghamton, just into Pa. Regardless, Dingman’s Ferry is less than 2 hours, if you wish to collect.
Anonymous
NY City, usually.
Anonymous
Since I was at the game in the video above, I am very glad I did not have to listen to Tim McCarver’s call at the time.
But I suppose I should be grateful for that any time.
Jon Weisman
Seconded. The annoying thing is McCarver going on and on about Victorino not wanting to get thrown at his head – right after Martin got thrown at his head.
Anonymous
McCarver is excruciatingly painful to listen to.
Anonymous
Watching that clip with fresh eyes reminds me that Victorino wasn’t so much the problem as was Manny. The confrontation between Kuroda and Victorino after the groundout was nothing, but Manny had to go and get all hot-headed about it and cause the benches to clear.
When benches clear, why do the bullpens clear too? Those guys have to run 100 yards just to get into a standoff. If they want to fight, can’t they just fight with each other in the outfield?
foul tip
You may have asked a question baseball people will debate for the next 267 years. Or maybe 268.
Anonymous
Don’t you mean “Hall of Fame broadcaster” McCarver? I agree. The only broadcaster I like less than McCarver is his partner, Buck. They’re why the mute button was invented.
Snake Smith
Victorino for Lindblom and E. Martin from what I just heard. I always said that I’d love Shane if he was a Dodger even though I hated him as a Phil. Time to test that hypothesis. Throwing Martin in seems a bit steep, but I think that the Flyin’ Hawaiian will be a nice addition.
Anonymous
Fine, I’ll root for him, but I don’t have to like it.
Terry Pruett
In order of preference:
1. Shoo…(probably not attainable with what we have to trade)
2. Soriano…(THE most immediate and greatest impact with the bat {bat him 2nd in front of Kemp and watch him rake}, and, while not a good defender, he’ll be replacing Abreu and Rivera, so he’ll look like Wilie Mays out there by comparison)
3. Victorino…He’s third not because of his lack of popularity here (that would go away with his first stolen base or 2 hit game), but because he sems to be dropping off rapidly, especially against RH pitching.
I’ll take Victorino, if that’s the trade, though. He’ll be an upgrade, and it was only last year when he had a fine season. He’s only 31…maybe he’s due to return to career levels.
Anonymous
Rather have him than have him competing against us.
Probably a common sentiment around these parts, I suppose.
Anonymous
Unless the Phillies magically rebound, VIctorino wouldn’t be competing with the Dodgers any time until 2013.
Anonymous
that’s probably one of my biggest reasons for being ok with a trade for Victorino. I do sense that Victorino would be rejuvenated with a trade.
Anonymous
The worst thing about the League acquisition is that now we have to look at that horrible haircut night in and night out.
On the plus side, if the Dodgers do acquire Victorino, League will have a fellow statesman to hang out with. They could be the 1-2 Hawaiian Punch. If they pick up Kurt Suzuki, they can corner the market on Aloha.
Anonymous
Wow, I didn’t realize that. Two Hawaiians in 24 hours?
Josh Shoemaker
Ethan Martin? No!
Anonymous
I’ll miss josh Lindblom at local Habitat events.
Anonymous
Lindblom and Ethan Martin? Really? That seems like a bit much for a 60 game rental.
Guess we wind him up and plug him in the leadoff spot and watch him go! He does have the best SB percentage on the team – and has playoff/WS experience. Wonder who is being DFA from the outfield?
Maybe Rivera moves to first and they DFA Loney?!?
Anonymous
Make Hairston the primary backup IF, and DFA you-know-who.
Blue-eyed Gal
I hope Uribe is our Voldemort, in this case.
Anonymous
I said I’d saw a limb off in protest if this trade went through, but we’d really have a situation it we ALSO stick Rivera at 1st for the rest of the season. How bout Rivera for Dempster now, eh?
Anonymous
What’s left, Dempster straight up?
Anonymous
I think so. Ned is playing poker with the Cubs. He knows he’s got all the leverage. I don’t see how he could mess up a deal for Dempster at this point. Only way is if Dempster decides he’s willing to play someplace other than LA.
Anonymous
Hey, we got a leadoff guy. Solving that and the left field inconvience in the same swoop sounds Lindblom worthy. Even if it is only for the next three months.
Anonymous
…a leadoff guy with a significantly worse average than Hairston.
Anonymous
Yeah, just because a guy is small and fast, that’s no reason to give him the most plate appearances. “Leadoff guy” is about as phony a role as “closer.”
Jon Weisman
This post has been updated.
Dr. Rockso
I think part of Victorino’s 2012 drop off is due to the missing pop in the Phillie’s line-up, i.e., no Howard or Utley until very recently. + a 2 month rental means LF open for Puig next season…
Anonymous
Puig is 3 years away , IF he ever makes the majors. That signing is very likely a big mistake.
Gobias Bluth
You couldn’t possibly know either of those two things to be true.
Eric Enders
He’s right that they are both significant possibilities though. The $ amount is making many fans overlook just how raw Puig is.
Gobias Bluth
Oh I agree they are real possibilities, I just don’t think you can definitively say that he is 3 years away or that the signing is in all likelihood a big mistake just yet.
Anonymous
I expect to see Puig during the September 2013 callups.
Jason Ungar
Loney is counting the hours.
Anonymous
Until what?
Anonymous
No kidding – Shane is an outfielder. And outfielder motivated to perform for a fat contract (on, hopefully, a different team, like one on Mars), but an outfielder nonetheless.
Jason Ungar
until he isn’t upgraded..how many more hours till the deadline.
Anonymous
Upgraded in favor of whom? We’re fine at first – he’s only hitting .323 in the last month. The only thing that needs to happen at first is a shift in Donnie’s attitude towards James.
Jason Ungar
Loney has a .645 OPS for the year. In his one good month he has managed to OPS a whopping .713. Going on 5 years now of near MLB bottom at production at 1b. It’s not just Donnie.
Anonymous
I tried explaining to my son that 1B is where you put the power guy in the infield. You know, the less gymnastic guy that has extra base hits. Maybe hits lefties extra-hard, too.
Anonymous
The Gnats have apparently acquired Hunter Pence, though it’s hard to imagine what the Gnats can offer that the Phils could possibly want.
Anonymous
Per Danny Knobler:
Tommy Joseph, a catcher, in San Francisco’s Double-A team, is hitting .260 with eight home runs and 38 RBI this season.
I think the Giants got the much better deal. I’d prefer to have sent Fedex for Pence than Lindblom and Martin for the cryin Hawaiian.
Anonymous
Agreed. Hope this doesn’t happen.
Anonymous
That’s a good case to be made, but Pence won’t help the Gnats much.
Anonymous
May have jumped the gun on this. Again, the Gnats have little to offer, and the parties supposedly involved are denying it.
Anonymous
I like this trade even less now that it includes Martin.
Anonymous
I was disappointed at first when I saw Martin was included, but then I thought about it more and wondered if my disappointment is that Martin is gone or that Martin never became what we expected or hoped which put him in this position. I doubt Martin would have ever really had much of an impact on the big league club. At least not as much impact as he has as a trade chip.
Anonymous
On a lighter note, 3 notes from the video:
1. I liked Entertainment Tonight host Mary Hart’s look of extreme umbrage at each Dodger beaning, behind home plate.
2. Was that Delwyn “Pee-Wee” Young almost single-handedly restraining a hyper-fertile Manny?
3. Martin gets thrown at for the third time, and hit for the second, and McCarver and Buck write it off because it was a breaking ball? And commend the umpire for his excellent pitch recognition skills?
Jon Weisman
Dodgers also sending a player to be named later or cash.
Anonymous
Overpaid for 2 month rental, should have taken Soriano…
Anonymous
and then overpay for 2 more years?
Anonymous
The assumption was that Chicago would be paying most of his salary, all but a couple of million I read someplace. Now it’ll cost us probably $10M a year to keep Victorino.
Anonymous
Nobody knows for sure. Thing is Soriano needs to be in the AL at this point. The Dodgers haven’t been great defensively, so while I was pulling for Soriano over Victorino, I think this is probably best for the Dodgers this year and the next couple. I really doubt the Dodgers will try to re-sign Victorino. Weather the Cubs would have paid some or all of Soriano’s contract, the Dodgers have greater flexibility this way.
Anonymous
This may be heresy but, given Kemp’s hamstring issues, it might be prudent to move him to left and let Victorino handle CF the rest of the year.
Anonymous
Left or right, I like that. He looked like he was feeling pain on several of his at bats.
Anonymous
More, it looks to me he’s a little hesitant in CF.
Anonymous
That look evident last night.
Anonymous
It’s something that the Dodgers should really consider this offseason, but I don’t know if right now is the best time for a major move like that. But yes, Kemp should move to RF and Ethier to LF eventually.
Anonymous
Now could be the best time, given his recurrent hamstring problems and the fact that LF is less demanding. Plus, Victorino is an excellent defensive CF, with a good arm.
Jason Ungar
That’s a good call. On MLB.com story (no quote) it said Kemp would be willing to move.
Anonymous
I have no problem with the Flyin’ Hawaiian now that he’s wearing the Blue – especially if he proves to be an effective leadoff hitter.
Gobias Bluth
Agreed. I still would’ve preferred Pence though.
Snake Smith
Pence plays a bad OF and a guy that doesn’t hit as well as his numbers make it look like he does. I think we got the better of the 2.
Anonymous
“doesn’t hit as well as his numbers make it look like he does”
What can this possibly mean? His numbers are his numbers. Do you mean that some headline numbers (BA, perhaps) are misleading? That he’s been lucky with BABIP? I would agree that he’s an ugly-looking hitter, but production is what matters, not style. I’m not arguing that Pence is a great hitter, but wondering what you could mean by “doesn’t hit as well as his numbers make it look like he does.” To me, that’s a logically contradictory statement.
Snake Smith
I live in Philly and watch lots of Phils games. He will not be significantly missed by the fans around here. Leaves tons of runners on, ridiculous swings when a groundout to the right side of the INF would be better. Bad situational hitting, not a very smart player. The organization had soured on him but his numbers remain decent.
Gobias Bluth
Provided all that is true, I’m glad the Giants got him then. I look forward to watching him strand runners, strike out incredibly foolishly, and taking full swings when a bunt has been called.
Anonymous
A smart hitter doesn’t try to hit groundouts.
Anonymous
Are the Phillies in fire sale mode after resigning Hamels to that monster contract? Seems like a strange way to go… Victorino, Pence, and possibly Lee?
Anonymous
I have absolutely nothing against Victorino, but this is a bad trade. As Jon points out, Victorino is an improvement only against southpaws, plus an upgrade at the two least important skills on the field: LF defense and baserunning. Neither of those things is UNimportant, just not worth paying much for. I think the Dodgers paid too high a price for such mediocre rentals. This is exactly what I didn’t want the team to do, but completely expected them to do.
Best case scenario is that Lindblom’s arm falls off, Martin never fulfills his promise, and the other prospects in the Seattle deal flame out. In that case, it’s just money for a couple months of false hope.
The NL is weak, to be sure. But I don’t think the odds of a Dodger WS victory just got any shorter.
Terry Pruett
I concur…IF you believe that his seaso this year so far indicates what he’ll do the next two months. It could be that he’ll progress toward his career levels…if he plays the rest of this year or us like he played last year, it’s a great move and really deepens our lineup.
Anonymous
I’m sorry we got a Weaselface rental instead of Pence for over a year. And it seems like we gave up more than the ‘ants did. I’m not crazy about this trade, and wish we had gotten Pence instead.
Still, I’m glad we didn’t give up our best prospects (Lee, Reed, Webster, Gould). However, a guy who has done pretty well relieving in the bigs may be a bigger loss than a promising prospect who’s never seen the majors. OTOH that Fangraphs article has some insight into Lindblom indicating there’s reason to believe he’s not as good as his numbers. I hope Cameron/Fangraphs is right when they say about what we gave up, “a bad command fly ball reliever and a bad command fly ball pitching prospect is not exactly a huge return”.
Anonymous
You put your finger on it. Weaselface is one of the reasons I dislike Victorino. Weasel attitude is another.
Anonymous
Giants gave up a pretty good prospect imo. Tommy Joseph is 20 years old and holding his own in AA.
Terry Pruett
The Lindbloms of the world will always be there.
Frank Jones
The Giants gave up way more for Pence than the Dodgers did for Victorino. Joseph was their #3 prospect by most observers. Ethan Martin _might_ have been in the Dodgers’ top 20 and was a not-rapidly-progressing 23-year-old. Lindblom is not a huge loss; League is basically an older version of Lindblom. MLB is literally teeming with Lindbloms.
The more I look at Pence the less I like him. Defensive liability who won a big contract based on one big year, which looks more and more like an outlier in context (and playing half his games in AT&T is not likely to improve his production). Glad we didn’t go for Pence: we almost certainly would have been giving up Lee or Webster for him, and then we’d also be on the hook for $13 million next year and less likely to go after somebody like Hamilton.
Jon Weisman
This post has been updated with more analysis links
SteelMohawk
Hey, at least we didn’t trade for Pierre. I like Juan, but man that would have made those terrible years of signings come full circle.
Jason Ungar
Ya i was thinking the same thing the whole time, for a week or so now and didn’t want to say it. jinx it. anything.
Anonymous
Well, Carlos Lee is available again. Should we have another go at him? (insert winky-face here)
Eric Enders
Victorino instantly joins my list of most disliked Dodgers, along with Kent and Kevin Brown. He does seem like one of those players — LoDuca is another — who are easy to like when they’re on your side and impossible to like when they aren’t. Manny grew on me while with the Dodgers so maybe Victorino will too. But probably not. In this case I really will be rooting for the laundry.
Baseball-wise, he’s an upgrade but probably not nearly as much of an upgrade as the Dodgers think he is. The Dodgers seem to be banking on the hope that his performance this year is a temporary lull and not the beginning of the end.
Terry Pruett
He’s only 31
Eric Enders
Before steroids, 31 was an age at which many solid-but-not-star players were washed up.
Anonymous
Before steroids? You mean in the deadball era?
Anonymous
Brown is at the top of my list, but I’m fine with Victorino (presuming he produces, as I expect he will).
Eric Enders
Victorino also joins the select group of players whom the Dodgers have acquired three different times. I think Giovanni Carrara is also on that list. Who else?
Linkmeister
Yeah, we could have saved some players (alas, Lindblom!) had we just kept Victorino instead of letting him go in the Rule 5 draft in the first place.
Anonymous
Who should we blame for that?
Thomas Sundstrom
I can think of lots of players that were Dodgers and came back later…can’t think of any three-timers though. Good questions!
Thomas
Linkmeister
Well, between League and Victorino, I’m now guaranteed to see more Dodgers highlights from our local sportscasters on the local news. So there’s that. ;)
Eric Enders
I wouldn’t put it past Ned to trade for Sid Fernandez…
Linkmeister
Sid circa 1986 or Sid now? ;)
Anonymous
See http://www.cduniverse.com/bonzo-dog-doo-dah-band-we-are-normal-lyrics-10918961.htm
Anonymous
The Yankees are looking for defense at 3B. Is there any chance Uribe can be shipped eastward?
Anonymous
For a 12 pack and a bag of chips maybe?
Anonymous
Depends on what kind of chips.
Anonymous
Buffalo.
Anonymous
I was thinking Doritos maybe but buffalo works.
Anonymous
I say trade him to Boston so we can get some wings with those beers :)
Anonymous
That’s not as crazy as it sounds. Uribe could rediscover his power in the New Yankee Bandbox, and he would be a defensive upgrade while A-Rod is out. And Lord knows, the Yankees have money to spend. Probably the only thing holding it up would be the length of Uribe’s contract.
Anonymous
Just pay the contract off and be done with him.
foul tip
The Dodgers could even offer to pay the extra freight charge for an overweight shipment…
Jibin Park
VIctorino may have been annoying as a Phillie, but mainly because it seemed like he would get critical hits. Not sure what his stats were against the Dodgers, but I imagine it was pretty good. Funny seeing Kuroda, Martin, Ramirez, Nomar & co…. doesn’t seem like that long ago, but man, a lot of those guys are long gone…..
Eric Enders
Amazing how few players are left from that team, considering it was only 4 years ago. There are 7: Kemp, Ethier, Loney, Billingsley, Kershaw, Elbert, and AJ Ellis. The last 2 didn’t make the playoff roster.
Anonymous
Those are the guys I wouldn’t want to see traded–glad to see they are still the nucleus today. I suspect there are just as few Phils from 2008 on the roster today (even fewer than yesterday).
Ruiz, Howard, Utley, Rollins, Victorino, Hamels, Blanton, Kyle Kendrick by my calculation.
I think it’s more a reflection of how the game is played these days. You will never see another Infield like Lopes Garvey Cey Russell, much less teammates for life like Jeter and Posada and Pettitte and Rivera.
Anonymous
I think you’re mostly right, but there does seem to be a trend toward signing star players like Kemp to be around for a while.
Anonymous
Yes, but except for Ned, there’s no trend toward signing guys like Uribe or Greg Dobbs for a while. Build around a nucleus of stars, and fill in the gaps with short-term rentals.
Snake Smith
Yep, I really smiled when seeing Nomar. I liked him as a Dodger.
Anonymous
>> Not sure what his stats were against the Dodgers, but I imagine it was pretty good.
Career overall: .277 .342 .434 .776
Career vs Dodgers: .261 .346 .449 .795
Anonymous
The Dodgers.com article on the trade says that Kemp said he would move to left to acquire Victorino. Really? That would just be too much.
Anonymous
Kemp is a team first player. I think he’s grown up a whole lot the last couple years.
underdog
It would be the right move though, for defense, and would instantly make the outfield defensively excellent. Won’t happen though…
foul tip
I hurriedly read that. Think it said Victorino hasn’t played LF since 2006. That may matter.
Anonymous
Victorino 242/301/349 as a LHH vs RHP; 252/306/419 away. Hairston higher in all 6 items (away involving different homes of course) as well as the 3 regular season long slash line items. Victorino has stolen bases, fielding, and a valuable position if Kemp moves to LF.
Not much use for Hairston or Gwynn now.
Eric Enders
When doing all these comparisons, though, let’s not pretend that Hairston’s 2012 performance to date is likely to resemble his performance going forward. He had a flukey hot streak, that’s all.
Anonymous
His brother’s doing even better for the Mets.
Jon Weisman
The Dodgers have designated LHP Michael Antonini for assignment to clear a spot on the 40-man roster.
Anonymous
Was he a TV star?
underdog
He directed “Red Desert” and “Blow-Up.”
Anonymous
See, I made the same joke down below, but I didn’t reply to the correct comment.
Anonymous
You get points taken off for that sort of thing.
Anonymous
I assume they will also need to clear a spot on the 25-man for the acquisition of two players (Victorino, League) and loss of one (Lindblom). We’ll see within the next half-hour whether there are any more moves to be made, otherwise they will probably DFA/release/demote a position player (maybe Abreu, oh please oh please maybe Uribe).
underdog
Interesting to hear Tom Verducci talking on MLB Network about how the Dodgers have changed the landscape of the NL West. Because of their new ownership and their new willingness to spend as well as acquire. Giants and DBacks feeling pressure, and division will produce more wins than initially expected. Kind of cool, in a way.
Anonymous
I thought the railroad was more responsible for changing the landscape of the West. And Hoover Dam too.
Anonymous
Actually, it was burning of the native forests and grasslands by the region’s pre-Columbian inhabitants.
Anonymous
And I thought it was the stealing of the water from the Owens Valley.
Anonymous
That was just changing the landscape of Los Angeles.
L.A. getting water from the Owens Valley: Crime against humanity. Makes for a great story (and even movie)
San Francisco getting water from Hetch Hetch Valley in Yosemite: Does not fit with narrative about noble, environmentally conscious Bay Area residents.
underdog
Forget it Bob, it’s Chinatown.
Anonymous
Hetch Hetchy might some day be restored. Owens Valley not so much. Unless they nail everybody with a $200 speeding ticket like they got me last summer. Or build the High speed rail line.
Anonymous
That was much later – the landscape of the west changed long before the arrival of Europeans. See http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-archaeology/Alfred-W-Crosby-on-the-Columbian-Exchange.html
Anonymous
Famous Italian filmmaker.
underdog
Is this THE Icaros, or just The Icaros? ;)
Anonymous
THE one and only. Hi, old friend.
Anonymous
3 bats for Jerry/Shane at LF 2 for Shane/Jerry.
Shane is a good late-game pinch runner.
Anonymous
That was supposed to be a reply to the Michael Antonini thread.
Anonymous
Now that Nate Schierholtz has been announced as part of the Pence deal along with Joseph and minor league reliever Seth Rosin, do people still feel the Giants made a better deal than the Dodgers for Victorino?
underdog
Yes, they gave up a better prospect and a solid position player, plus a pitcher who is only marginally worse than Martin.
Anonymous
You said yes, but I think you mean no as in “No, the Giants did not make a better deal”.
Anonymous
Given how desperately short of position players they are, the Gnats are probably satisfied with the deal.
Anonymous
Also they get a right-sided bat, which they needed. Still, it’ll be hard for them to keep up with us after Hanley, Victorino and probably Dempster coming soon.
Anonymous
Sheerhope is pretty awful, but Pence isn’t much of an improvement.
Anonymous
To me, Pence is younger, better, and not a free agent in two months. The Giants already have two young catchers blocking the guy they traded, and Schierholtz is garbage. Rosin is a single-A relief pitcher who is already 23.
Anonymous
it’s all about perspective. Living in central CA I can tell you that people here don’t feel the same way about the Giants in the trade. They would tell you the Dodgers got the steal in that deal.
Anonymous
Are the people in central CA saying the Dodgers got the better deal LA fans or SF fans?
Anonymous
There are both. I live just slighly closer to LA, but there are Gnat fans here as well as Dodger fans. I grew up 45 miles north of Bako, same there. Of course, every single Gnat hat I see is brand new, bandwagon jumpers all.
Anonymous
Yeah, I know central CA is about a 50/50 split in LA vs. SF fandom, but I’m wondering about the rooting interests of those immadmac has been speaking to, because I think that probably matters more than where they live.
Anonymous
Granted, Modesto is Central/Norther CA. Def. Giant country here. I probably should just call it NoCal.
Anonymous
SF fans that are pretty upset to see Nate go. Fact is we really don’t know how this deal will turn out. I really don’t think Martin would ever be anything more than a frustrating #5 pitcher. While it’s sad to see Josh go, fact is, as most people here will agree, it’s much easier to find relief pitching. Just as it’s not worth paying a reliever big money, I don’t think they are worth getting hung up on when doing a trade. To me, the player traded so far that will be most successful in the majors is Eovaldi.
Anonymous
Where do you live immadmac?
Anonymous
I’m not personally fretting much over losing Lindblom and Martin. But Victorino is a two month rental and Pence gives SF a legit 4th bat through next season (at least, not sure of his total service time).
People being upset to see Nate go is funny and cute. Though, looking back at his stats just now, he’s technically not as horrible as I’ve always thought.
Anonymous
Pismo, I live in the Modesto area.
Anonymous
>> Now that Nate Schierholtz has been announced as part of the Pence deal along with Joseph and minor league reliever Seth Rosin, do people still feel the Giants made a better deal than the Dodgers for Victorino?
I do. Schierholtz is a below-average-hitting outfielder without much power. So they basically gave up a replacement-level major league position player, a decent minor league catcher, and a reliever who has never pitched above A-level, for a major-league outfielder with plenty of power and a year and a half contractual commitment. We gave up a pretty good major league reliever and a questionable pitching prospect for two months of an outfielder whose hitting is way down this year.
So the biggest differences are that Pence is a far better hitter than Victorino, and he’s signed for eight months of playing time rather than two.
Anonymous
Pence won’t hit that much in The Phone Booth to be Named Later, and his defense may be suspect there (Sheerhope was good defensively in a difficult RF).
Anonymous
nice fan film of his in-the-parker in SD 15 months ago:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBuTLXWkh64
Mick
I’m looking forward to Vin’s call tonight. Hearing him say “The Flyin’ Hawaiian” has me unexpectedly giddy.
Anonymous
Will Victorino be in uniform tonight?
Anonymous
Given he’d be traveling from the East Coast, seems unlikely.
Mick
Still hoping! Likely Vin will reference SV’s nom de plume tonight. If
there was anyone in the world who could make you like a player just by
saying the name, it’s Vin. Love that guy.
Mick
Hoping!
Jon Weisman
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=17843
The Baseball Prospectus take on the trade.
Anonymous
Blocked for non subscribers.
Anonymous
Any chance someone could summarize in a couple of sentences for us non-subscribers?
Anonymous
so, is anyone hoping the Giants acquire Brox?
Anonymous
The Reds won that prize.
Anonymous
In my defense, Brox was still available when I made the post.
Anonymous
I figured as much. Things move fast on July 31. For example, I found out today on NBC News that there are large numbers of people migrating to North America via a land bridge across the Bering Strait.
Anonymous
Scott Podsednik is now a DBack. Craig Breslow heads to Boston.
Anonymous
I have mixed feelings with the trade. Yeah i’m happy that we got Victorino, but what’s gonna happen to Jerry Hairston jr. He’s been doing well all season. Maybe move him to 2nd and have Mark Ellis be the primary IF backup?
Anonymous
I really wish that an anonymous comment would have been incendiary instead of insightful.
Anonymous
One of the linked articles notes that these trades mean we will have a much stronger bench, as our former starters get moved there, and Hairston is one of them. I think the main reason Hairston won’t start most days is because of the Ramirez acquisition, more so than Victorino.
Anonymous
Someone has to come off the 25 man. They can’t really afford to send down Cruz, with the lack of SS. That leaves DFAing Abreu, Rivera or Uribe. Uribe may be terrible, but 6 outfielders is a bit much, even if they can play a little first base. Tough call for Donnie. I expect to actually see Abreu go, unless there is DL thing I don’t know about.
Anonymous
Loney or Gwynn could go in the Dumpster Deal.
Jon Weisman
No way Abreu is cut to keep Uribe.
Anonymous
Uribe gets DFA’d or comes up with a knee strain. Rivera will be 1B, with Hairston backup at other 3 IF spots. Can’t see them letting Abreu go. Or go back to 11 pitchers
Anonymous
I agree, it will probably be Abreu. Although I’m hoping for Uribe. I don’t see a DFA for Rivera unless we land a first baseman.
Anonymous
At the risk of skirting Rule 5…
>> On the plus side, if the Dodgers do acquire Victorino, League will have a fellow statesman to hang out with. They could be the 1-2 Hawaiian Punch.
I’ve heard that their birth certificates are phony, and Victorino and League were both born in Kenya. :)
(The truth is, although League grew up in HI, he was born in Sacramento.)
Anonymous
sounds like the negotiations have gotten contentious between the Dodgers and Cubs.
Blue-eyed Gal
Yep, we’ll root for him.
I am a little irked at Victorino for past antics, but if he plays well, fine. I haven’t heard any knocks on him about being a bad teammate. (Crossing fingers over Hanley, although for some reason I like him more.)
I am not entirely fond of Belisario either, but I appreciate his skills.
And I did not like the Manny trade, for various reasons, but I cheered him until the PED stuff came out.
I appreciate this new ownership giving Colletti the wherewithal to build a strong team. I’d have preferred Pence, and I’m sorry to see Lindblom go, but… yeah, this is a plausible move.
Anonymous
Tim Brown reporting the Dodgers have pulled out of talks with the Cubs regarding Dempster.
Anonymous
Dempster to Rangers
Anonymous
Bowden’s streak continues
Anonymous
That’s a better fit than the Yanks IMO.
Jon Weisman
I can’t believe someone had to trade something for Podsednik.
Anonymous
Podsednik’s market is always developing.
Anonymous
What he lacks in grittiness, he makes up for in lack of toolishness.
Anonymous
Equates to the chips for Uribe comments above.
Anonymous
Every time I hear of Podsednik, the first thing that comes to mind is his stupidity for declining the mutual $2 million option which the Dodgers were ready to accept at the end of his time with us.
Anonymous
Your last 6 words are the best
Anonymous
The deadline is RIGHT NOW.
Of course, some trades can take a litte while to be announced. And trades can take place in August too.
Anonymous
Dumpster is a Ranger.
Anonymous
Dempster to Rangers
Anonymous
But hey, we got a lead-off man for two months…. I would much,much rather have gotten Dempster and Soriano. I’ll quit whining if they sign him to an extension, but for two months, it was stupid.
Anonymous
If we want to trade for Soriano, we can always pick him up in August because, I guarantee you, no team in the majors will claim him off the waivers (not even the Dodgers).
Anonymous
True, he should still be available. Terrific DH for a team that gets to the Series.
Anonymous
I have a feeling if they do sign him to an extension for big money and he continues to decline you will still be whining.
Mick
sorry, repeated post, please ignore, nothing to see here …
Anonymous
I don’t see any love being lost between the Dodgers and Cubs. Compared to what they wanted from LA, that was a screw you trade.
Anonymous
I may be naive, but Ned would be stupid not to talk to Lopes re: Victorino, and if he got the thunmbs up from Lopes that is a huge plus in my book.
Jon Weisman
NPUT